What if your Candidate Experience was more like hailing a ride on Uber? #HRFamous

On episode 92 of the HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim Sackett, Jessica Lee, and Kris Dunn come together to discuss how HR and recruiting could be more like Uber, then shift to the promise of legal immigration in the U.S. to help fight worker-shortage issues.

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!

Show Highlights

1:30 – Tim recently went and sat on the floor at an MSU game. He said he doesn’t know how to go to a basketball game ever again.

9:45 – Bruce Springsteen recently sold his music catalog for $500 million. Tim asks the group what artist/group they would buy a catalog from. JLee chose Mariah Carey. KD chose Nirvana.

13:00 – Tim mentions that Taylor Swift’s catalog got sold, but she is now re-recording all of her catalog to get back at the owners. Tim chose Michael Jackson over Prince.

15:15 – JLee saw Yao Ming in her office once and was blown away by how big he was and how it impacts every part of his life.

16:30 – Tim mentions an article about how Uber made its users OK with waiting. He relates to a candidate experience perspective and asks how HR pros and recruiters could put something in place to make waiting better.

18:00 – KD thinks that hiring managers need to commit to a day that they will make their decision and communicate that date. It’s the equivalent of arrival time for Uber!

20:00 – Tim says that ATS status updates are too high-level and unspecific.

24:00 – JLee has the idea to do “hiring manager ratings” just like “driver ratings” that are on rideshare apps. Tim iterates off that and comes up with “number of interviews/hires” just like “number of rides.”

25:15 – In 2021, the U.S. population grew by 0.1%. This is the lowest amount since 1918 when the influenza pandemic and World War I were happening. Tim thinks this is a major demographic issue where we aren’t replacing as fast as we are losing people.

27:30 – Tim asks the crew how revamping immigration could help fight against this problem. JLee and Tim discuss making it easier for people to immigrate by focusing on the process.

31:00 – KD mentions how 300,000 visas sound minuscule for what is actually needed to help with the lack of workers in this country.

Can work culture be defined by everyone wearing a baseball cap? #HRFamous

On episode 90 of the HR Famous podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim SackettJessica Lee, and Kris Dunn come together to discuss characters on HBO’s Succession, wearing company-branded apparel on Zoom calls to attempt to build culture, and increases in health-insurance costs.

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!

Show Highlights

2:45 – JLee had a call with her chief legal counsel and she forgot she had a hoodie on and felt underdressed.

4:15 – JLee is late to the Succession game but now she is obsessed. Tim and KD are longtime fans. JLee asks, “Who is the least worst of the Succession siblings?”

9:40 – Tim didn’t realize while watching Schitt’s Creek that Catherine O’Hara (Moira Rose) was the mom in Home Alone.

11:30 – A recent Business Insider article reported that a CEO of an established company expects all employees to wear baseball caps/hats on Zoom calls to represent being a part of the company.

16:45 – Tim mentioned that when he worked at Applebee’s, they loved when their employees wore their logo on the clothes they wore to work and often gave out clothing with the logo.

19:30 – JLee just realized she’s a perpetrator of this because she bought every member of her team the same hat on a team outing.

26:00 – JLee has noticed that benefits rates are going up and she’s curious about how companies are communicating to their employees why the rates are increasing. Tim said his rates were going to go up by 34%.

28:00 – Tim says that during the pandemic, health-insurance companies had really low utilization and so it looks like this is a cash grab.

32:00 – Tim has often run into a problem with Blue Cross where they always try to make you pay more than you actually need to and then employees need to fight back against the insurance company.

35:00 – JLee is a brand loyalist, even when it comes to medicine!

Letting Every Employee Hire & Helping Your Kids Negotiate Job Offers!

On episode 89 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim Sackett, Jessica Lee, and Kris Dunn come together to discuss gifted book recommendations, letting employees hire for new roles, and helping your children negotiate job offers. 

Listen below (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!


2:30 – Shoutout to JLee’s brother-in-law, Eugene!

5:00 – Tim is on yet another vacation with his wife and family to Hawaii! He bought a few books for this trip and he asked the crew if they were going to give a book to someone for the holidays, what book would they give?

6:30 – KD’s recommendations include Conspiracy by Ryan Holiday and American Kingpin by Nick Bilton. 

8:00 – JLee recommends Plant Therapy for the Plant Lovers and Act Like a Leader, Think like a leader by Herminia Ibarra for the business folk. Tim recommends Living, Loving, and Learning by Leo Buscaglia. 

13:00 – Lots of great book recs this episode! KD recommends fiction writer Douglas Copeland

14:20 – Tim recently wrote a blog post asking “what if we let our normal employees make a hire?”. This would involve almost none of the normal application process; no interview, no resumes, no filler. 

17:00 – KD says that to an extent, companies already do this with the adage “everyone’s a recruiter”. 

19:45 – Tim thinks that small orgs can test this hiring practice and do it on a much smaller scale rather than a huge scale at a major corporation. 

23:45 – JLee tells a story about her first interview at Marriott. JLee wasn’t a typical hire since she didn’t come from a huge brand and a prestigious university. 

26:00 – Tim says you have to be careful on who you hand this hiring responsibility to but notes that some companies that are struggling to find employees have nothing to lose.

27:00 – Tim’s son and podcast producer, Cam, just recently accepted a new job offer. He asked Tim if he should negotiate his job offer and Tim said of course. Tim was super nervous that as soon as he negotiated, that his offer would get pulled. 

31:30 – KD asks JLee about how many managers would step away from an offer if someone tried to negotiate with them. JLee thinks less than 10%. 

—————Jessica Lee, Kris Dunn, and Tim Sackett


HRU Tech

Jessica Lee on LinkedIn

Tim Sackett on Linkedin

Kris Dunn on LinkedIn

The Tim Sackett Project

The HR Capitalist

Fistful of Talent

Boss Leadership Training Series

Could You Be Elon Musk’s HR Leader?

On episode 88 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim SackettJessica Lee, and Kris Dunn come together to discuss Elon Musk as a maverick leader (his move of HQ location without discussing with the leadership team, firing of longtime assistant, etc) and whether they could work for him as his SVP of HR. Drinking at Michigan State tailgates is also discussed.

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!

Show Highlights

3:00 – The Michigan attorney general (Michigan fan) recently released an apology for getting too drunk at an MSU football game. She said there was more alcohol than food at the tailgate. KD said the MSU tailgates are quite aggressive.

6:30 – When MSU and U of M play each other, anywhere from 150k to 250k people are on the respective campus. Tim says it’s the “biggest cocktail of the North.”

9:30 – Today’s episode is dedicated to the one and only Elon Musk. A few months ago, Elon announced that the Tesla headquarters are moving from California to Texas. He didn’t tell his leadership team before he made the announcement, according to California officials trying to spin the move in a negative way.

12:30 – Tim can’t believe in a modern world that a CEO would do this since even small moves can cause major change for many employees. KD notes that it really didn’t impact as many people as some might think, since Elon wanted to move to Texas and the top talent at Tesla is either tied to a plant or as specialists who can work where they want as long as they are willing to travel.

14:00 – JLee mentions that Elon is the new “boogeyman.” KD mentions that his leadership team must have had enough experience with him to know that something like this could happen or would be happening soon.

18:30 – KD asks JLee for any guidance from HR leaders who work with CEOs like Elon. She notes that the best strategy may be to not try and control the leader.

20:30 – Tim mentions that Tesla is still considered a startup, even though most startups don’t grow as quickly or to the scale of Tesla.

24:30 – JLee calls Elon a little petty in response to his former assistant’s story.  The gang makes a note to discuss the dynamics of asking for more money in the future — there’s always a chance the answer is no!

33:00 – Elon recently took to Twitter to ask his followers if he should sell 10% of his stock. Tim notes that he had to do this since he has tax bills coming due.

37:30 – KD talks about some potential tax rebates for purchasing EVs and how the current administration is proposing greater rebates for auto companies with unions. KD notes the administration is penalizing one of the great innovators of the last 100 years, and also notes that the lower rebates may put Tesla out of reach for some lower and middle-class buyers, which he considers ironic due to the fact that elites will still buy a Tesla regardless of the price.

42:30 – KD asks Tim and JLee if they would be Elon’s HR leader. Tim says yes because of his extreme innovation. JLee won’t answer, but KD says he would too.

HR Famous Talks Vaccine Mandate & Are Millennials Afraid of GenZ?!

On episode 87 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim Sackett and Jessica Lee come together to discuss the new vaccine mandates and Millennial Fear of Gen Z.  Welcome to the grown-up world, Millennials! The kids are crazy!

Listen below (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!


1:45 – JLee and Tim got dinner this week and KD was a little jealous…

5:15 – Tim recently met with the folks at SHRM and he heard that whenever they put out any content piece about COVID or vaccines, it gets 100 times more engagement than any other posts. 

7:30 – Tim notes that OSHA said all employees that choose not to get vaccinated can be forced to pay for their mandatory tests. He doesn’t know how companies are going to attract new employees and force them to pay for COVID tests. 

9:00 – Congrats to OSHA! You’ve made it!

11:30 – CNBC recently released an article about actor Kal Penn applying for a job at the White House under the Obama administration. He didn’t receive a response from his application until he mentioned to Michelle Obama at a White House gala that he had applied. 

18:00 – JLee has thought about working for the federal government to help fix their hiring process. She applied through a similar website to the one Kal Penn used and she never received a response. 

22:00 – JLee thinks the federal government needs someone with private sector sensibilities to come in and fix their hiring processes. 

23:30 – Tim recently sent JLee an article from the NY Times titled “The 37-Year-Olds Are Afraid of the 23-Year-Olds that Work For Them”. Tim asked JLee if she’s afraid of her twenty-something employees. 

27:00 – JLee wonders how we can still encourage young people to be bold and unapologetic with some more grown-up sensibilities. 

31:00 – Tim’s advice for young people is to always run ideas/suggestions/comments by a trusted mentor before going to the broader public at a corporate level. 

The #HRFamous Future of Work!

On episode 86 of The HR Famous Podcast, longtime HR leaders (and friends) Tim SackettKris Dunn, and Jessica Lee come together to discuss new Peloton users, Blink 182, how to multitask during in-person meetings and Adam Grant’s future of work.

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!

Show Highlights

1:45 – We have a new Peloton user! KD is now on Peloton and JLee picked his username.

6:45 – Tim asked KD to make a meme with the “change my mind” format. He added the text “Michael Bolton should be at SHRM every year.”

8:40 – JLee proudly notes that while Kim Kardashian has been staying in NYC, she’s been choosing to stay at a certain Marriott hotel (location undisclosed).

10:00 – This is now a Blink-182 podcast!

11:30 – JLee is stressed because of the impending return to office. She’s worried she can’t openly multitask during meetings. She asks her co-hosts for some advice.

13:40 – Tim reminds us that people often had laptops open during in-person meetings and many of them were not just taking notes.

18:30 – Recently, Adam Grant wrote an essay in the Wall Street Journal titled “ The Real Meaning of Freedom at Work”. He discusses the Great Resignation and notes that this is part of a longer shift in work trends that has been happening for a long time.

22:00 – Tim notes that Adam Grant’s perspective on work is probably very different than most due to his job as a college professor at an elite university.

25:15 – JLee discusses how the notion of “positive liberty” entails some privilege and that those within the service industry are most likely not able to exercise this liberty.

28:45 – Everyone brings up individually and how a lot of the population doesn’t want to have their own freedom in the workplace and just wants to be told what to do and how to do it.

As a Boss, should you send an email out at 9 pm?

On episode 84 of The HR Famous Podcast, longtime HR leaders (and friends) Tim SackettKris Dunn, and Jessica Lee come together to discuss business travel during the pandemic, sending late-night emails, and whether you should opt-out of a group message.

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!https://html5-player.libsyn.com/embed/episode/id/20865626/height/90/theme/custom/thumbnail/yes/direction/backward/render-playlist/no/custom-color/87A93A/

Show Highlights

3:00 – KD asks Tim what his favorite OG from old-school rap is. He loves LL Cool J, and JLee likes Dr. Dre because of his purple satin suit.

5:15 – KD has been hitting business travel hard over the last few weeks. He has been in four different locations after not having much at all for the last year and a half. He has really started to notice the different mentalities to Covid precautions/mask-wearing in different parts of the country.

8:00 – KD was surprised by the strict mask mandates that were in place in Las Vegas when he and Tim were there for a conference.

11:00 – JLee is happy that the housekeeper at the hotel that KD stayed at felt empowered enough to enforce a mask-mandate policy.

14:30 – On a Southwest flight recently, KD heard the initial reactions of Southwest employees to a vaccine mandate.

17:00 – Tim mentions how some airlines offered early retirement to pilots during the pandemic and are now begging pilots to come back to work.

20:00 – KD wrote a post recently titled, “Are you a jerk for sending an email at 9 pm?” KD references a study where they looked at this and they found that receivers of late emails overestimated the quickness of response needed.

23:00 – JLee thinks that people in their mid-career won’t care when emails are sent and more senior employees may be more careful with their messaging.

25:30 – If the future of remote work offers more flexibility, Tim thinks that email send time doesn’t matter as much anymore (with caveats).

28:45 – There are folks out there that are very anti-after-hours emails.

32:00 – Tim doesn’t understand the people that want to have their cake and eat it too. How are we going to be working flexibly and then also defining after-hours?

37:30 – JLee thinks it’s a power move to opt-out of group messages, like group texts or chain emails. KD thinks it’s better to opt-out instead of not participating at all.

Is Market Compensation Dead? #HRFamous

On episode 83 of The HR Famous Podcast, longtime HR leaders (and friends) Tim SackettKris Dunn, and Jessica Lee come together to discuss Halloween at work, Zillow’s new remote comp approach, and JLee’s new job!

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!

Show Highlights

2:00 – Halloween is coming soon! JLee asks the crew if they’re dressing up for the holiday this year.

4:15 – JLee wonders if she is forcing fun onto her friends, family, and co-workers by making them do fall/Halloween-related activities. Tim says that people almost always have fun when they’re forced to partake in these types of activities.

8:00 – How do you feel about group costumes? The crew goes back and forth on good group costumes.

10:30 –  JLee saw a post on LinkedIn of an update from a CHRO at a major company. She reads the update to Tim and KD and then reveals that the company is Zillow.

12:45 – KD is softening to the approach of not factoring in location when determining salary/pay.

16:45 – JLee notes that certain brands have the privilege to exercise changes in pay and salary because people are willing to give something up to work for your brand.

18:40 – Tim worries that the fact that companies are doubling down on not changing pay based on location will result in something bad happening years down the line.

22:00 – JLee wonders if everyone is overreacting to these discussions and changes in company policies. She thinks some things will just go back to how they were and this might just blow over.

24:00 – JLee praises KD for changing his opinion and having the ability to develop a new stance on something.

25:00 – JLee got a promotion! She asks Tim and KD for some advice on her new job.

28:00 – KD advises JLee to give patience to new people that she is now managing. He advises her to walk the line between being patient but also being decisive when the time comes.

31:30 – Tim advises JLee to bring a third party, within the company, to lead transition meetings in order to give a voice to her new employees.

36:30 – JLee asks Tim and KD how to manage new stresses with a new job at home when it comes to family. Tim says your time becomes more valuable and there are things you have to figure out that will make your life easier.

39:00 – JLee mentions that her husband recently reached out about any extra support she needs now with a new job. KD and Tim are impressed.

At what point is Job Hopping a problem? #HRFamous

On episode 82 of The HR Famous Podcast, longtime HR leaders (and friends) Tim SackettKris Dunn, and Jessica Lee come together to discuss TikTok hiring, recruitment marketing on social media, and Gen Z job-hopping.

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!

Show Highlights

3:00 – Tim is a TikTok user and often sends clips to his closest friends and family, including KD and JLee. JLee deleted the app, so she only gets them from Tim now.

5:00 – There is a new TikTok trend where someone asks a question like “tell me blank” and people respond. The Amazon brand account created one where the question was, “What was the best thing you ever got off of Amazon?” and an employee responded and said, “My career”. Tim thinks Amazon has a great TikTok employment branding presence.

8:15 – KD thinks that social media recruiting only works on platforms that display company and job titles.

13:00 – JLee thinks that recruiters may get off the rails and try to improve their own personal brand. She thinks that a lot of recruitment marketing content is cheap and unoriginal.

15:00 – Cameron, Tim’s son, recently shared a TikTok with Tim where a young worker was sharing the advice to job-hop in order to increase salaries.

16:00 – JLee thinks the only reason to job-hop is to get different experiences and try new things.

17:30 – KD says the concept of job-hopping is not new but the advice is. He also thinks that two years is the perfect time for a young person to job-hop.

21:30 – Tim and JLee say that if you’re hopping laterally to several different jobs, there has to be a story behind it.

24:30 – JLee worries that if you’re making progression in your career but you are hopping from company to company, you aren’t good enough to ever get promoted internally.

26:00 – AppCast recently came out with data for companies that are struggling to get applicants. Some of their advice includes shortening your apply cycle and posting jobs at the start of the week and the end of the month.

29:00 – Tim says that only 1/10 TA leaders know where applicants are dropping off in their application process.

32:00 – Another piece of advice is to include at least two specific benefits in the job posting. This improved application rates by at least 40%.

The Pros and Cons of Paid Leave Benefits! #HRFamous #HRTechConf

I’m at The HR Technology Conference this week in Vegas and it’s amazing to see all of the new Leave technology on the market! We were talking about this on the pod this week, check it out!

On episode 81 of The HR Famous Podcast, longtime HR leaders (and friends) Tim Sackett, Kris Dunn, and Jessica Lee come together to discuss texting in the workplace, the Theranos trial and the proposed paid leave bill.

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!

Show Highlights

2:40 – KD recently was on a run while on vacation in Florida and pulled out his phone and checked out the Zillow app while running, a normal KD trait.

4:30 – KD asks JLee to speak about an instance when she made a business mistake over texting. JLee mentions a co-worker who had a misspelling error.

7:15 – Tim talks about how the “meeting after the meeting” is now happening during the meeting on Zoom.

9:15 – How cognizant are you of your exclamation point usage in emails? JLee says she doesn’t limit herself like she once did.

12:00 – KD mentions the book Bad Blood by Ramesh Balwani that is about Theranos and their blood testing.

14:00 – KD reads text messages between Elizabeth Homes and Sunny Balwani that were uncovered by the prosecutors at the ongoing Theranos trial.

19:00 – KD thinks that the prosecutor should have a running screen at the trial of the best text exchanges between Holmes and Balwani.

22:30 – JLee warns everyone that text messages can be discovered even if they are deleted.

24:00 – The People Infrastructure Bill coming from the Biden administration has a lot of things that impact the workplace. KD brings up paid leave and the new policy. This policy includes paid leave for almost all workers who have earned wages in the last six months.

26:00 – Tim’s initial reaction is torn because he wants to have the paid leave benefits for American people and families, but he worries about the actual financial cost of these policies.

29:00 – JLee mentions how it’s hard to manage paid leave in a multi-state work environment and how some of these policies could help ease those complications.

31:00 – Tim says that HR pros may be the worst to talk about paid leave because they see all the people that take advantage of systems that are in place to help people.

36:00 – KD reads the nine states that currently have paid leave laws. JLee says she’s surprised Maryland doesn’t have paid leave laws. Tim says that he’s surprised Vermont isn’t included and KD says Minnesota.