We bet on Laurie Ruettimann taking over #HRFamous! @lruettimann #BettingOnYouBook

In episode 45 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim Sackett and Jessica Lee are joined by special guest Laurie Ruettimann to discuss her new book (out 1/12/21, click to view) called Betting On You.

Listen below (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!


2:00 – Tim opens up the episode with a discussion about pronouns prompted by this tweet. JLee mentions that they/them can feel like the only option for some people and so she understands why some people would want pronouns that are unique to someone.

5:30 – Tim welcomes on today’s guest, Laurie Ruettimann! She is a longtime friend of the pod and we are happy to have her on today’s episode!

7:45 – Laurie has a new book coming out soon called Betting On You. She says that she wrote the book because she felt stagnant in her HR roles and wanted to create the book that she would have wanted in this phase of her life.

9:30 – Laurie mentions the phenomenon that HR employees tend to forget their employees too and they need to trust themselves and the issues that they see.

11:00 – JLee asks Laurie what she thinks makes her book stand out from others. She says that she just wants to tell stories and her experience. She doesn’t claim to be an expert but she wants to relay messages she’s learned from her work experiences.

12:00 – The crew takes a quick sidebar to talk about their favorite Peloton instructors (Team Dennis or Team Cody?).

14:00 – Laurie mentions that many different movements of this past year have caused a lot of self-reflection about our lives and our morals and how this theme of her book follows along with this journey.

17:30 – Tim asks JLee if she thinks there will be a reckoning for more traditional white-collar environments post-pandemic. She thinks that the traditional way cannot keep going on in the way that it has for a long time.

22:00 – JLee thinks that people forget how many choices they have. Not only do they choose to work somewhere but they choose to go to work every day. Laurie thinks that embracing that perspective as an HR professional can change how systems work.

24:20 – Laurie brings up the fact that FBI agents are taught to detach themselves from their work and that they have an identity outside of their job.

26:50 – Tim asks Laurie about things they can do to combat burnout. She says one of her favorites is that your personal life should go on your professional calendar first. She thinks so many of us are victims of the Outlook calendar.

29:30 – Tim heard a story about how your life is juggling 5 balls. The ball for your job is rubber but the other 4 are glass. You can rebound from dropping the job ball but the glass balls will cause real damage.

32:00 – Laurie’s new book is available for pre-order at bettingonyoubook.com and available for purchase on January 12! Also check out her podcast, Punk Rock HR! Thank you to Laurie for joining us for this episode!

Order the book here!

Big Companies are Announcing their Return to Work Plans! #HRFamous

In Episode 44 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim SackettKris Dunn, and Jessica Lee come together in the new year to discuss that Gary V requested Jessica on LinkedIn, the CHRO move of the week, and Google calling their employees back into the office (eventually).

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!

Show Highlights:

1:30 – Happy New Year! Tim is thinking (and hoping) that 2021 is going to be a great year. JLee is looking forward to drive-through vaccinations.

2:45 – JLee got a LinkedIn request from Gary Vaynerchuk. Tim is extremely jealous (he’s a super fan), and JLee is very confused on how she got this.

6:00 – The gang wonders aloud how many people send invites out on Gary V’s behalf. Tim thinks that JLee needs to leverage her brand and her title to get Gary V on the phone in 2021.

9:00 – Time for the CHRO move of the week! UPS announced a new CHRO Darrell Ford after their old CHRO (Charlene Thomas moved to a new role at the company).

10:30 – KD thinks Thomas got a demotion.

12:30 – Tim thinks that Thomas was potentially underperforming so they brought in a new one to try out in the head HR position.

15:30 – Tim also wonders that they are potentially setting up Charlene Thomas to take over a COO or a CEO role eventually at UPS.

17:20 – In KD’s youth, the UPS driver was a person of note in his life. KD thinks it’s a transactional job now because there are so many drivers and people aren’t making a lifetime career out of being a driver.

21:00 – JLee thinks that KD would be a shorts-only UPS type of driver. No brown pants in sight!

22:30 – Next topic of the day: Google’s CEO announced that they will continue being remote, but they will be returning back to the offices eventually and will not be remote forever. The announcement said that employees should eventually return to a place that is in a commutable distance from their office.

25:00 – KD thinks this is the revert back from the earlier pandemic announcements of full time, forever remote transitions.

30:45 – KD also thinks that Google is trying to prevent a mass exodus from California to places like Texas, as companies like Tesla are moving there.

32:00 – JLee is coming up on her 100th Peloton ride and she found out that her husband ordered 100 balloons on their shared Amazon account to celebrate.

#HRFamous: Calling Yourself “Doctor” in the Workplace & Best Work Christmas Stories

In Episode 43 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim SackettKris Dunn, and Jessica Lee come together to discuss Christmas shopping, the term “Dr.” in corporate America, and HR Christmas horror stories.

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!

Show Highlights:

2:00 – Have you finished your Christmas shopping yet? The Lee and Sackett families are done with their completely online Christmas shopping, and KD had to ask his kids to get gifts for Mrs. Dunn.

4:30 – For those of you lucky enough to get the Sackett family Christmas card/letter, Mrs. Sackett is a big fan of throw pillows (as is Mrs. Dunn).

5:45 – First topic of the day: use of the term “doctor.” On Dec. 11, the Wall Street Journal dropped an opinion article being critical of soon-to-be First Lady Dr. Jill Biden’s usage of the term.

7:30 – KD has always been skeptical of the use of “Dr.” in corporate America, away from education. Tim has understood the opinion of the article from a recruiter/corporate standpoint ,as well. However, he understands it applies differently in other industries/academia where it may be more relevant or acceptable.

10:00 – Tim reached out to seven different people he knows who have a doctorate, including MDs, EDDs, and PhDs. Six out of the seven of these people said that they harp on each other about the merit of their degree behind closed doors, but in a professional setting, they’d be expected to be called Dr.

13:00 – JLee is married to a PharmD and in writing, her husband includes his doctorate title. JLee thinks that in writing, being called “Dr.” is justified and totally acceptable, but it may be weird to refer to someone in person as “Dr.”  KD clarifies that JLee’s husband is including letters behind his name, not the Dr. title in front, which JLee confirms.

16:00 – Tim thinks that if Dr. Biden and Joe Biden had switched roles, Joe wouldn’t have had an article like this written about him.

21:00 – KD asks Tim if the term “Dr.” on a resume would throw him off ,and he said that it only bothers him if someone in an interview were to ask to be referred in that way.

27:00 –  KD likes it when people combine “Dr.” with a funny first name like his friend Dr. Chuck.

28:40 – KD asks the crew if they have any dysfunctional workplace Christmas stories. KD tells the favorite from his career about a dysfunctional boss that made him make a “this offer expires at the end of the day” to a VP-level candidate on Christmas Ev. JLee tells a story about how her first HR job required her to be the event planner and she wasn’t 21 yet, so she had to plan events with alcohol without being able to drink.

30:00 – Tim had an employee’s wife complain over email to him about the company gift.

Should You Get Fired for Posting TikTok Videos at Work? (Um, yeah!) #HRFamous

In Episode 42 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends)  Tim Sackett, Kris Dunn, and Jessica Lee come together to discuss TikTokers getting fired from their jobs at Sherwin Williams, the new Microsoft productivity score, and how much they spend on gifts for their siblings during the holidays.

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player below) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!

Show Highlights:

1:30 – Tim opens the pod by asking the crew what their favorite side dishes are for the holiday season. JLee is a stuffing fan, KD likes the good mashed potatoes, and Tim likes them all!

3:45 – First topic of the day: TikTok videos taking over work! Popular TikToker Tony Piloseno, who got famous for his videos of mixing paint, got fired from his job at Sherwin Williams and social media went ablaze.

6:00 – Tim says that he knows exactly where a regional HR manager knows where this is coming from his experience as a lower level HR leader during his career.

7:00 – JLee doesn’t understand why there wasn’t an investigation into what was happening and what the repercussions could be for firing Piloseno.

10:00 – KD goes through all of the calls that an HR manager might get from a Sherwin Williams manager.

11:10 – JLee mentions how he was very passionate about his job and how she feels like there was an oversight in his firing.

13:00 – Second topic of the day: Microsoft released the Microsoft Productivity Score which allows IT and other product development managers to monitor how their products are being used. Tim raises the question “was this type of software inevitable?”

15:00 – JLee isn’t very concerned about her personal privacy because she doesn’t have anything to hide. However, she does see that there might be some value to this product.

16:30 – KD is more interested in the productivity score of their managers – a collective score for how teams are doing and the effectiveness of a manager –  instead of using it as a “gotcha” tool for individuals.

20:00 – Any mouse movers to make it seem like you’re online?

21:00 – Tim met with the team at Microsoft that put this together and he thinks their intentions are good but the product in bad people’s hands can be an issue.

23:00 – Final question: what do you spend on your siblings for the holidays? JLee’s family doesn’t do presents for adults anymore. Tim’s does the same because they were over exchanging gift cards. KD just buys his siblings a book (so only $20).

24:00 – Tim hates getting gifts but loves getting gifts especially for his younger brother.


Jessica Lee on LinkedIn

Tim Sackett on Linkedin

Kris Dunn on LinkedIn

HRU Tech

The Tim Sackett Project

The HR Capitalist

Fistful of Talent


Why does HR hate minimum wage laws?

In episode 41 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim Sackett, Kris Dunn, and Jessica Lee discuss the impact of the new Florida minimum wage passed in the November election Cycle and the passing of Zappos’ CEO Tony Hsieh and his impact on the world of company culture and HR.

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!


2:45 – The HR Famous crew opens the pod by sharing their Black Friday deals. Tim is the main shopper of the group and he bought 4 pairs of shoes, 7 pairs of pants, lots of quarter zips, socks, and Christmas gifts for his family.

6:10 – First topic of the year: Florida passed an increase in the minimum wage to $15 (from $8.60) by the year 2026. About 60% of voters voted to pass the raising of Florida’s minimum wage.

8:40 – Tim thinks that they had an easy job to pass this proposal because the increase is several years away. He also notes studies that show minimum wage increases reduce suicide attempts.

10:00 – JLee thinks this opens up an interesting conversation since some people may have crossed the aisle and split their ballot to vote for the minimum wage raise.

11:30 – Tim notes that he saw this ticket-splitting in many different areas across the country between candidates and proposals or plans.

14:00 – Tim and JLee think that a raise in minimum wage will become a consumer tax instead of a job decrease.

14:40 – KD disagrees and thinks that this may actually hurt small businesses and benefit big corporations since they have more ability to handle that increase.

17:00 – KD also thinks that compression in wages may happen with a pay increase, and the impact of compression is something most don’t think about with minimum wage increases.

20:00 – Last topic of the day: Zappos CEO Tony Hsieh passed away on November 27. He has been responsible for a lot of important HR principles that are used today.

21:30 – Tim says his biggest takeaway from Tony Hsieh is allowing HR to test just about anything. Tim wrote this post about Tony Hsieh in 2009 and he commented.

24:00 – JLee notes the importance of Tony Hsieh as a very visible Asian-American leader.

26:00 – KD, JLee, and Tim share their favorite contributions to the HR dialog that came from Zappos. Conversations include hiring people that don’t act like the norm at your company, Holacracy, and paying people to leave!

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!


—————Jessica Lee, Kris Dunn, and Tim Sackett

Jessica Lee on LinkedIn

Tim Sackett on Linkedin

Kris Dunn on LinkedIn

HRU Tech

The Tim Sackett Project

The HR Capitalist

Fistful of Talent


Boss Leadership Training Series

Recruiting Behavior in 2020 – Will it change for 2021?

In Episode 40 of The HR Famous PodcastTim Sackett, Kris Dunn and Jessica Lee appear at TalentNet Live and do a panel on behavioral trends among recruiters in 2020, using the 2020 Recruiter Nation Survey from Jobvite as their source for conversation.

The gang discusses how recruiters have changed in the depths of COVID, Tim gives his rant about the use of social media by recruiters, JLee notices that female recruiters might be more balanced than males and KD wonders how soul-crushing it is to be a resume writer in 2020.

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!


————TalentNet Live and Jobvite

TalentNet Live

Craig Fisher


The 2020 Recruiter Nation Survey

—————Jessica Lee, Kris Dunn and Tim Sackett

Jessica Lee on LinkedIn

Tim Sackett on Linkedin

Kris Dunn on LinkedIn

HRU Tech

The Tim Sackett Project

The HR Capitalist

Fistful of Talent


Boss Leadership Training Series

How is your remote onboarding going? Almost all of us are missing one big thing! #HRFamous

In episode 39 of The HR Famous Podcast, longtime HR leaders (and friends) Tim Sackett and Jessica Lee are joined by Cameron Sackett to discuss remote work burnout, proposed remote work privilege tax, and onboarding in a work from home environment.

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!

Show Highlights:

1:30 – KD is out this week, but Tim and JLee welcome Cameron Sackett, Tim’s son, and our resident Gen-Z expert, onto the pod!

3:20 – First topic of the podcast: The Wall Street Journal published an article recently about burnout due to working remotely.

4:30 – Cam started working at BuzzFeed about two months ago, and he mentions that while he hasn’t hit the full-on burnout that many others have, his company is offering some special offerings to combat burnout, like mental health days, yoga and meditation sessions, and more.

6:30 – JLee is glad that people are trying things to combat burnout, but she worries that the things people are trying aren’t the right answers. She also worries that this emphasis on mental health will dissipate once the pandemic is over.

8:00 – Tim’s Gen-X mentality makes him think that these special perks are a setup to weed out the weak, but he does see his own employees struggling with the types of burnout mentioned in this article.

10:00 – Next topic: Deutsche Bank recently released a study calling for a “privilege tax” which takes a 5% tax from those working from home to support lower-income essential workers who can’t work at home.

11:45 – JLee wants the people at Deutsche Bank to look at their own company first and ask themselves if they would do this within their own corporations before putting out some plan like this.

14:00 – Most people aren’t choosing to work from home and so JLee and Tim think that the responsibility should fall on the corporations to take care of this issue instead of the workforce.

16:40 – Time for the CHRO Move of the Week: The Washington Football Team recently hired Andre Chambers to be their new head of Human Resources. He comes from many different industries such as tech, gaming, and even grocery!

18:00 – Any Wegman’s fans out there? JLee is a big fan.

21:00 – If any pro sports teams want to hire KD or Tim to be their head of HR, they’re ready to go!

24:40 – Last topic of the podcast: onboarding in a pandemic world! Cam onboarded to his current role completely remotely, and he gives us some insight on what the experience was like. He mentions that while the actual onboarding process wasn’t that much different, he has had trouble getting to know his co-workers.

27:00 – JLee asks Cam about the logistics of his onboarding experience. He had good communication from his recruiter and manager in order to have a smooth onboarding process.

29:00 – Cam talks about the struggle he’s had about meeting and getting to know the people on his team since he’s not in person with his co-workers. Tim says that he’s heard of organizations that will force employees to make introduction videos for new hires.

33:00 – JLee asks Cam if he heard anything about the required dress code, and he says that he was given no direction on what the dress code for WFH was.

36:00 – JLee doesn’t know of a company that does onboarding really well and thinks we often do a disservice to new hires because of this.

39:15 – Cam says that the work culture that BuzzFeed is known for doesn’t really come through in a virtual environment, and he doesn’t think he’ll know what it’s like until he starts working in the office.

It’s 2020 and I’m Re-certifying with @SHRM. Want to know why?

In 2001 I got my SPHR certification for the first time. I started my first real HR Manager job and the CHRO wanted to make sure every single HR person on our team had either a PHR or SPHR. I did an eight-week group study course with fellow HR pros studying for the test and I was lucky that my company had also purchased a SHRM study kit.

I remember leaving that test thinking, “I have no idea if I failed or passed! And, boy, I only know a fraction of what I thought I knew in HR!” This was after studying for two months straight and putting legitimate hours in on the study kit.

I passed and vowed to never have to take that test again!

It’s 2020 and SHRM just sent me a reminder that my SHRM-SCP is up for renewal. For years I carried both the HRCI-SPHR and the SHRM-SCP. Again, I figured I did all the education to keep them up, I’ll just carry both.

Why am I re-certifying for the SHRM-SCP? 

  1. If you’re in HR, SHRM is the world-recognized leader in HR. So, having a certification from SHRM carries career weight.
  2. 99% of Leaders of organizations who care about someone having an HR certification have always believed it was a SHRM certification, even though for most of that time HRCI was the actual certifying body. Now, SHRM has its own HR certification, and quite frankly, it’s as good as the HRCI one, and in some cases better.
  3. I don’t see any other association in the world doing as much as SHRM does to advance the practice of HR. Because of that, I foresee them being the leader in the HR space for a long time.
  4. When I speak to actual SHRM card-carrying members, they are very satisfied with the association and they are very happy with the education and support they are getting.
  5. It’s a cost-effective way to stay on top of changes in HR and show those who care that I’m staying on top of my profession, probably better than most people are.

Let’s be honest, I’ve reached a point in my career where the SHRM-SCP certification isn’t needed for me personally. I don’t have to re-certify and I’ll have a job tomorrow and at any time in the future. But, I’m choosing to anyway because I did the work!

I developed content for webinars and presented it to my peers in HR and TA. I sat and watched peers in HR and TA present at conferences and on webinars and I learned things I didn’t know. I read books and listened to podcasts, and consumed tons of HR-related material so I was staying up on all the changes in the HR field.

Maybe it’s PTSD from taking that test once, but I’m re-certifying because I never want to have to take it again. I’m re-certifying because having my SHRM-SCP makes me feel special and accomplished. It sets me apart in the field of HR, and I won’t apologize for that, I passed the test and did the work.

Me re-certifying isn’t about taking a stance for or against something. This is about me and my professional development. I encourage every single professional to find ways to continue your professional, functional development long after you have “gotten the job”. Getting the job is just the start, not the end!

(FYI – for those thinking somehow SHRM is paying me for this post. They aren’t. But as always I welcome anyone to pay me for anything if they are so inclined! I’m an equal opportunity check casher.) 

Does Your Work Mandate You Tell Them Who You’re Sleeping With? #HRFamous

In episode 35 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim Sackett, Kris Dunn and Jessica Lee discuss their favorite Halloween candy, dig into BlackRock’s recent policy change that mandates employee report all romantic relationships, including those with all company partners and vendors, and wrap it up with a discussion on Performance vs. Trust via a famous Simon Sinek video.

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player below) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!


1:30 – Halloween is right around the corner! JLee is modifying the normal Halloween routine for her two young kids. She’s excited because her kids are getting into Star Wars and they’re doing a Star Wars family costume.

3:00 – Tim’s family is doing a Michigan vs. MSU football/Halloween neighborhood tailgate. He is trying to decide if he wants to be Biden or Trump for his costume.

4:15 – What is your favorite Halloween candy? Tim is team Reese’s pumpkin because of the peanut butter to chocolate ratio. KD likes the bite-size (better known as fun size) Snickers. JLee likes a classic Kit Kat.

6:45 – First topic: BlackRock is now requiring all employees to disclose any sort of romantic relationship with anyone in the company or anyone related to the company, including all vendors and partners, which includes 1/5 of the known world by definition. The company may make alternative work arrangements depending on reporting from employees.

8:00 – Tim, the HR Famous workplace harassment expert, thinks that this new policy is stupid because it limits so many romantic or sexual relationships.

9:30 – JLee doesn’t want to know every possible relationship between employees from an HR perspective. She says it’s TMI!

10:30 – KD says that this policy follows a few scandals with relationship reporting at BlackRock involving high-level employees.

14:30 – The gang suggests a hashtag for Blackrock – #sexlessnation

15:00 – JLee tells us what questions would have to be asked about these relationships.

16:20 – The HR Famous crew wishes the best to the BlackRock HR crew with this new policy. #sexlessnation

19:30 – Second topic of the day: Simon Sinek’s video Performance vs. Trust. In this video, Sinek talks about the Marines and how to value trustworthiness vs. high-level performance.

22:40 – JLee thinks that this is a hard lesson for a leader to learn because you often only learn you can’t trust someone once someone has made a mistake.

23:30 – Tim brings up Malcolm Gladwell’s most recent book Talking To Strangers and how humans tend to default to trust when often people are not being trustworthy.

26:00 – Shoutout to Ed Baldwin and the book The Thin Book of Trust by Charles Feltman. He defines trust in his book as sincerity, reliability, and competence.

27:00 – KD and JLee would love if Simon would button up his shirt one more button!

The HR Famous Pod – E34 – Is it legal to only hire cute blondes as Flight Attendants?

In episode 34 of The HR Famous Podcast, long-time HR leaders (and friends) Tim Sackett, Kris Dunn and Jessica Lee come together to discuss a recent employment lawsuit that claims United Airlines grants assignment privileges to young blonde females and discusses the stock price of Slack tanking once Wall Street determined it’s growth wasn’t going to blow up in the WFH world aka Zoom.

Listen (click this link if you don’t see the player) and be sure to subscribe, rate, and review (Apple Podcasts) and follow (Spotify)!


2:45 – WTF is WFT? KD teaches us what the Washington Football Team is. Formerly known as the Washington Redskins, WFT is the new name for the team that didn’t have a name ready for a rebrand, and all Tim and KD want to know is how Jlee, a DC native, feels about it.

5:45 – KD takes a shot a what his company’s name would be if they had to turn to something generic like WFT. Spoiler alert – It’s bland.

7:15 – First topic of the day: United Airlines has taken a lawsuit from flight attendants. Bloomberg reports this lawsuit has to do with preferential treatment to young blonde females based on physical attributes on flights chartered by major league sport teams. Shocking.

11:00 – JLee talks about how she gets upset about reviewing creative collateral due to the lack of size and physical diversity. She also wonders about the role the unions play into who gets the more coveted charter flights.  KD covers what the collective bargaining agreement says, turns out the flight attendants union bargain the right away.

12:30 – The website Live And Let’s Fly published an article saying that clients can request specific flight attendants to work their flights if their schedule allows. The same article includes unnamed sources who provide some information provided by United Airlines in the initial discovery.

16:00 – Tim talks about how he thinks most judges won’t get into collective bargaining agreements and will try to push it back to the union to deal with.

19:15 – The HR Famous crew gives their favorite profile of flight attendant. KD likes the middle aged women who are afraid to push back on people. Tim likes the ones who recognize frequent flyers.

22:30 – Last topic of the day: Slack! Slack recently reported quarterly results and it was in line with analysts expectations for their growth but their stock tanked.  The gang discusses whether Slack is must have work tech, compares it to Zoom and talks about how the greatest generation – GEN X – likes to communicate, which is all that really matters to Gen Xers. The gang identifies JLee as non-Gen X, but bets she can still muscle on on email without ever signing into Slack or the equivalent.

29:00 – Time for the CHRO Move of the Week! Nadia Rawlinsen is the new CPO of Slack! She comes from companies like Live Nation and Groupon and colleges like Harvard and Stanford. The gang takes a look at her career and thinks out loud about what’s in front of her at Slack.


Jessica Lee on LinkedIn

Tim Sackett on Linkedin

Kris Dunn on LinkedIn

HRU Tech

The Tim Sackett Project

The HR Capitalist

Fistful of Talent


Boss Leadership Training Series